Dear Reader, 

Welcome to DRØME Volume IV. Four years and we’re still here. Figuring it out and making it work, the best way we know how. The growth is apparent, but sometimes from the inside, it can feel slight. We are constantly in flux. Shifting and moving through ideas about who we are, what we’re about, and what we can be. 

And we think that’s okay. 

Nothing is ever set, really. 

Taking a cue from cover star Nico Tortorella, so much of our expression comes from the space in between. The spaces where we allow ourselves to ask questions. To think about what is conceivable, to throw ideas against each other and discover what is possible. You, dear reader, are about to see what eight months of that process can produce. 

DRØME is the result of so many brilliant individuals’ hard work. We do not work alone; this is a platform and publication that would not be possible without our community. Part of the privilege of that for us, is being able to support other artists in their work and know when to be hands off. Cover star Amandla Stenberg creative directed her own shoot. And why not? We believe in the talent. It is an honor for us to be able to share this work with you. 

With that, thanks for tuning in. Make sure you hit subscribe below and smash that motherfuckin’ like button. 

We appreciate your support. We appreciate your collaboration. 

Protect trans kids. 

Caroline and Satchel

@wearedrome

Zoé Lawrence: How did you come up with the concept for this shoot?

Amandla Stenberg: I was looking through some of my big sister’s old photo books and was struck by the glamour shots she used to take with her best friends and cousins at the 23 minute photo studio on Crenshaw in South LA where we grew up. They called it that because of the shoots were impressively efficient but I can’t confirm that they actually took 23 minutes. My sister has given me many gifts - vigilance, the art of not giving a fuck, loyalty, and how to laugh at yourself. But last and certainly not least: how to rock a tank top hunny. I wanted to honor her by recreating her photos from teendom while referencing her style. I also wanted to use the opportunity to perform facets of self. I don't often have the opportunity to do that, but DRØME was so cool to offer me a platform to do whatever I wanted by affording me full creative control.

Z: How do you think you are growing into your identity when it comes to gender and sexuality at this point in your life?

A: For a long time, especially growing up in the public eye, I felt that ascribing to certain ideals of femininity was a non-negotiable part of my career path as an actress. It’s hard to know how you want to present yourself when you’re a kid, but then you factor in being primed and prepped and put into pink dresses by adults who are just doing their jobs and aren’t necessarily thinking about a 12 year old’s “gender expression”... [laughs] When the exploration of gender even dawned on me as an option, I was about 15. As a teenager I actually felt comfortable identifying as genderqueer way before I felt comfortable identifying as gay. There was a sweet spot around that time where I started to understand how to make my outside feel like my inside in a way that was not conscious of sex. That was before I experienced various stages of refutation of my sexuality, which made me feel nervous about presenting as anything other than femme.

When I first came out however, I felt the need to persistently declare it through my presentation, my language, my movement. The genderqueer leapt! I think I kind of felt like there was a Right Way to be queer and I needed to prove that I was a Real Gay by mostly presenting masc. I now know that there is absolutely no definitive praxis for being queer and that thinking there is one is kind of the antithesis to queer ethos. That’s the nature of identity I suppose. We over assert when we discover, and then we find balance and truth. Now I feel pretty comfortable presenting however the hell I feel like which spans a large spectrum of gender.

Z: It definitely seems like you’re comfortable.

A: I'm lucky to learn from my peers. I am very blessed to be surrounded by such a vibrant spectrum of humans. Within our friend group, there aren’t any rules to follow that dictate how you should express your queerness, or if you're "queer" enough. It just feels really accepting and diverse. The amazing people I get to be around are so uncompromising in themselves.

Z: I definitely agree. Our friend group has [taught] me to be more vulnerable and open with my identity. Trying to be truthful to yourself but also not really knowing who you are just yet can be really tough. It doesn't feel like I have to stay the same or be constant with how I present myself. If I do want to try something new, there's always a flood of support, love and deep appreciation from our friends. My friends bring me closer to myself in that I see a lot of myself in them, and I also see who I want to become. I gravitated towards you because I feel like I can be myself around you. We're constantly learning when we are together which is really nice and really, really fun. We have the safety to be able to try shit out, you know? It can feel so dangerous to get outside of yourself, so being able to do that with you, makes it feel really safe and free.

A: Aw damn! Most definitely. It is so special to feel safe enough to try out new ways of being.

Z: I agree. Is this our first time working together?

A: Yes madame, this is our first time "officially" working together. You've definitely been taking pictures of me for a minute though.

Z: But it's been pretty relaxed.

A: Taking pictures with you doesn't feel invasive at all. It feels authentic and you [capture] really special memories the way you engage with people. It never feels like, "Everybody stop! I'm taking a picture." [Laughs] There is a romanticism that you carry about life that translates to the way you take pictures and it makes your photos feel apart of the memory that is already being created.

Z: Thank you. That's very sweet. I think that came out on this set. It was nice to have friends on this shoot. It created a pretty relaxed environment without too much pressure.

A: I mean there was a little bit of pressure [Laughs].

Z: Your boss bitch came out for sure, which I appreciate! It’s nice to see you transform and step up to the plate.

A: You're always like, "I love when you become a bitch!"

Z: [Laughs] I fuck with it, honestly. It's fire. I'm hoping in the future we can do more projects like this. Let’s​ ​talk about your music.

A: Okay word. I’ve loved music since I was little. I have always played instruments, I’ve played violin since I was very tiny. Growing up my mom was in the church choir and my dad was a singer songwriter. For a while I thought that I wasn’t capable or worthy of making my own music-

Z: I think a lot of people have that fear.

A: Yes. So I stopped putting pressure on myself for it to be anything in particular, and started looking at it as what it is - fun, therapeutic and expressive. I feel like that’s also how you make the best music. Now it’s definitely something I turn to when I want escapism, reflection, and an emotional outlet.

Z: I agree. I really love your music, I love your voice!

A: Thank you! I’ve been working on my voice a lot and gaining more confidence in it. I truly believe that you can do anything when you practice and believe in yourself. I’m also having a lot of fun learning how to program.

Z: What program are you using right now?

A: Logic. It’s been really fun. Women are so discouraged from producing, it’s so dumb. I’m having a grand old time! [Laughs] I am slowly working my way towards feeling comfortable sharing my music. Right now I’m really valuing it for how it makes me feel. [It’s important for me] to have an artistic expression that there’s no pressure on and no expectation for. Being an actor is how I make money and so inherently because that part of my artistry has been commodified I can’t help but imagine the voyeur in my process sometimes. For now, I don’t have that with music. That all being said... I shall be dropping some shit.

Z: I think that’s why I also started making music. The same way how acting for you feels not just like an art form but a job, photography has definitely got to that point for me where it’s not as fun. But music is so direct. It is exactly what you are feeling in the moment, which I love.

A: It is such a beautifully direct form of expression.

Z: It’s so cool to go back to the songs and beats that you make because they’re kind of like markers and bookmarks of your everyday experience. Since we’re talking about music what do you think about the new FKA Twigs right now?

A: I had an FKA Twigs poster in my bedroom up on the ceiling above my bed when I was 14. Not to be that person who is like, “I liked it before it was cool” but deadass when her Two Weeks video dropped, that changed my whole world, seeing the way that she utilized different mediums to express so much and in such an emotional and otherworldly way. I love Twigs so much and it is really cool to see her continue to push boundaries. She is one of the artists that I respect the absolute most. She never stops pushing, she never stops challenging herself. The fact that she learned to pole dance phenomenally for this video is so wild.

Z: We definitely stan.

A: We stan big time.

Z: What are some of your favourite albums or projects that just dropped?

A: I have been listening to Solange’s new record [​When I Get Home]​ and watched the visual album of course, which was completely arresting and phenomenal. I have been listening a lot to Grace Ivez, a New York based artist who makes really amazing, catchy pop. Her lyrics smack hard for me. I have been listening to a lot of Nipsey and thinking more deeply about what he was saying, reflecting on what he meant to Crenshaw and to my family and community. Who else have I been listening to... Alice Coltrane. And Janet [Jackson].

Z: Fire. I’m always so intrigued by your love life and I’m sure a lot of people are... So, how do you ask these hunnies out?

A: Are you really about to do this to me right now?

Z: We wanna know!

A: I think my tactic is pretty simple, for the most part I’m just like, “Can I take you out to dinner?”

Z: I like that. You’re forward. I respect that. Being a woman, I don’t respond well to game and pick up lines, I respond to someone being straight up with me, and kind and sweet about it. But not in a whole, tryna bag me kind of way. So that’s how I approach asking a girl out, which honestly for the most part, works... Almost every time! Shit.

A: Yeah it does. I don’t think I would even know how to spit game.

Z: Man, I be spittin game though, I’m not gonna lie about it. It’s just fun to exercise it every once in a while.

A: I definitely be flirting. But I’m not like spitting game. I’m a softie.

A sign of our modern age is an insistence on complexity and contradiction. None of us are any one thing. Billie Eilish, with her raw, rough teen angst imbued with measured emotion, represents a particular duality. She rocks a loose fitted tee and a pair of Nikes that read, “suck my dick,” while also reminding her fans, “not to suffocate [their] loved ones.” She has dropped a single that demands we see her in a crown one day, while late the night before she played the piano in an empty dark room, reminding us that “pain doesn’t go away [we] just get used to it.” Queens like Billie are unconfined by simple vocabulary, unable to be put down by a simple label, comment, or review. And that’s why she can make an audience of thousands jump along, raging in unison to an unforgiving bass. Billie’s vulnerability comes across her music and its dynamic sound, with soft dulcet tones paired with an eye-rolling, middle-fingering “FUCK YOU” irreverence.The subversive romanticism she captures and allows to co-exist with a biting spirit of raw, unabashed youth make Billie Eilish’s unique style a captivating one. The soft vocals that melt over synths in “Ocean Eyes” pose a contrast that only our complex moment could allow. The duality of gentle yet unapologetic makes her a true symbol of the now, and it only leaves us wanting more. 

Photo Kelia Anne

Styling Timothy Chernyaev

How did you meet?

Harmony: We met at The Smell in Downtown LA, which is a DIY [music] venue. We were teenagers and would just go there to see bands and hang out with a bunch of our friends. It was a scene.

Tell us about your tattoos!

Harmony: I've collected so many over time, I feel like they are just stamps of experiences and time, mainly… [I’m] trying to slow down on them. I really like when I casually end up getting one somewhere still, though. A lot of [tattoos] I gave myself when I lived in a loft with Jilian of Ian Sweet. We would just hang out all day and I would stick and poke her and myself.

Cleo: A lot of mine are pokes done by friends and others are by various artists that I found through the internet. My favorite is one that I designed, inspired this graphic I saw on a baby changing station.

How has your relationship grown over the years of being in a band together?

Harmony: It has grown hugely. We have both stretched each other massively in ways even beyond our own cognition.

Cleo: We have grown beside each other for a long time now, and it’s beautiful to reflect on the different kinds of shapes that we have both been.

How has your music grown with your friendship?

Harmony: I think our taste evolves as anyone’s does, ours just happens to very close to each others.

Cleo: We are both into discovering new music all the time and definitely share good ones with each other when we feel the need to.

Cleo, since coming out as non-binary, I’m sure there has been a lot of love and support from your fan base. How has that been?

Cleo: Really powerful to feel the love and feel a slew of new opportunity to engage in discussions on fluidity and this big life.

Talk to us about the process of creating this new record. In what ways did it differ from previous records?

Cleo: In the past, we composed a full album together from beginning to end. On this record we worked on each other’s songs which we witnessed the construction of. We collaborated more on the arrangements of the songs, not the lyrical and structural composition.

Who is one artist you would love to work with?

H: Tears for Fears.

Do you have any morning routines? How do you preserve and harness your energy?

Harmony: I like to hike, it really cleanses me. I try to meditate as much as I can. Reading is really good for preserving my spirit and grounding me, while also inspiring me creatively in a huge way.

Cleo: I drink coffee at first blink of the eye. Ideally I do my morning pages, meditate, eat a bite and then go exercise. The morning time is very sacred.

What are your signs? How important is astrology to you?

Harmony: I'm a Libra with Gemini rising and Sagittarius moon. I was raised very thoroughly immersed in astrology so I have been attempting to take it with a grain of salt my whole life, but I find it really interesting and sometimes it is startlingly poignant.

Cleo: I’m a Virgo with a Virgo rising and an Aries moon. It’s fun!

Photo Matteo Mobilio

Interview Slater Stanley

Styling Danny Bowien

What really drew me into Mission Chinese was all the lights. It looks like a club in there! What is the relationship for you between nightlife and food?

Restaurants for me, have a level of escapism. Going out to a meal is just like going out for a night out.

I noticed that it has a lot of neon lighting and is super spacious. Did you have a hand in the interior design?

We were fortunate to be able to work with some really creative people who realized our vision, Alex Gvojic, Lauren Devine, and Nikki Mirsaeid. We wanted the restaurant to be indicative of its Bushwick surroundings, so it definitely has a brutalist and industrial feel. Our first restaurant on Orchard Street was tiny. That lasted a year and a half, and then we had to move. The Chinatown location is much bigger. It was interesting and fun to have gone into this new space, because we got to build it from the ground up.

There is a very palpable feel of Bushwick in the restaurant, it’s very youthful and light hearted. I visited the Mission Chinese in Manhattan which is like the older sister to the Bushwick location. Do you have any plans for opening another location?

Right now Bushwick is only four months old, so there has to be a lot of attention and time put into its development. I have lots of hopes and aspirations to open up more locations and do more projects. Right now my time is dedicated to operating both locations, which is a lot. I tend to thrive in chaotic environments and when I have lots of things on the table. So ideally we would be doing a lot more.

Your son is adorable and is all over your Instagram which I think grounds you for your audience; more than a mastermind chef, you are a relatable human being. From the ingredients in your dishes, you seem to view food with a childlike curiosity. How does your son inspire you in terms of cooking?

My son is starting to like spicy food. For the first couple years, I found myself eating a lot of food I was preparing for him— very simple, clean flavors, and things that aren’t spicy or overwhelming. That was informative of the Bushwick location. A lot of dishes adopt the less-is-more approach. Cooking for my son has definitely informed how my cooking style is evolving into a more health conscious and simplistic approach. At Bushwick, we have really dialed down the amount of meat we serve, leaning a lot more towards vegetarian, even vegan-based.

Yes, I so appreciated that. I am a vegan myself.

As a chef, you can lean on certain ingredients, but it’s fun to challenge yourself in other ways. Like, what can I do without putting pork belly or bacon into this dish? Also the demographic, and demands of Bushwick clientele versus lower Manhattan has been a really great challenge, and I’ve embraced it.

Your son and I both have a lot in common; we both have mullets and we both love spicy food! You were talking early about sources of inspiration. I see you doing work in fashion, and other fields aside from cooking. How has Instagram affected the way you interact with your customers as well as collaborate with other creators?  

Social media has changed everything. When I was starting to cook, there was a mystique to it—you’d hear about a dish this chef was doing in Spain, and you’d have to go seek out a cookbook. Then you’d lust after it, because cookbooks were really expensive, and you’d hang out at cookbook stores. Now, everything is so accessible which is really helpful. But the good thing about food is that you can’t download it. You still have to go eat it. Social media has definitely helped broaden our reach, but it can be depressing. Everyone is always presenting their best case scenarios. I use social media lightly and don’t take it too seriously. Most of the pictures are of me and my son doing silly stuff, or food.

Your whole Instagram has such an air of softness, which is very comforting.

I’m 36 now, and I’ve been through a fair amount since moving to New York seven years ago. I feel like there has to be lightness in everything for me at this point. I’ve had insane opportunities because of social media, but I do find myself taking time to disconnect from Instagram. I grew up in Oklahoma, and when I was younger the only access I had to food was through watching stuff on TV, like Food Network. I don’t follow a lot of food-based people on Instagram; I tend to follow people who inspire me or silly stuff that makes me laugh.

That’s a great way to not get sucked into the spiral. You are very vocal about your sobriety. How has your life and the food you create been affected by that decisionI haven’t drank for about 6 years. When I stopped drinking I was still self medicating in different ways, with drugs or prescription drugs. I woke up one day and realized that I hadn’t been sober for the last 18 years. Every night I felt like I had to drink to go to bed; the industry I worked in was very demanding and I got tired of being hungover. I had to get a handle on my life and my business. At the time when we were blowing up, I couldn’t have been more unhappy personally, but to everyone else it looked like I was on top of the world. After becoming successful, you think you have to live up to a certain expectation. It was really difficult for me to break out of that mindset. Sobriety has helped me become less fearful of success. It’s improved my cooking too, because I used to be high all the time, and I used to think I had all these cut great and amazing ideas, but I was just high.

At work, every day there is a challenge. The dishwasher is going to be broken, you’re going to have a leak somewhere—whatever it is, it’s about recovery, not running away from problems. You can’t close the restaurant because the dishwasher isn’t working, and so you have to look at it in the face and walk straight through it. I was so terrified to fall down. People want to make it seem like they’re living their best life and everything is great and that’s just not reality. Things happen. I have fallen down but I’ve gotten back up, and continue to push on. You learn from your mistakes. Failure is probably the most important part of success. [Recovery] helped me get to the place where I’m not afraid to get up and move on. Every day is a new day.

I want to congratulate you on that milestone. You have articulated the clarity it has obviously given you. From my experience working in kitchens, I’ve noticed that many cooks are heavily tattooed. Do you think that has to do with escapism and catharsis?

I grew up in Oklahoma, and when I still lived in Oklahoma it was illegal, you couldn’t legally get tattooed.

Oh my God.

I just got back from Oklahoma and I got a tattoo there because it’s legal now. Tattoos are another from of expression. A tattoo is an example of something that’s really painful, that you push yourself to get through— it’s challenging. I usually get tattoos that take a few hours, and there is a level of spontaneity sometimes. I just got a tattoo of the logo of a chicken fried steak sandwich restaurant in Oklahoma, “Del Rancho.”

Oh, that’s cute.

After opening Bushwick, I feel like I got probably five or six tattoos within six months. I also base them around celebratory times. I’ll do an event with a friend in from out of town and then afterwards I’ll say, “We should go get a tattoo together!” It’s fun. I don’t take it too seriously.

Rad. I can relate. How did you start cooking and why did you choose to focus specifically on Chinese cuisine?

I chose to focus on the food that I really enjoy eating. I was adopted when I was three months old, my parents are American and I’m South Korean. I grew up in a religious household and we went to church five days a week. When people asked what I wanted to do, I always said I want to be a doctor or an eye doctor. So I worked at eye doctor’s offices throughout high school. I didn’t want to go to college, I joined a band. When I was 19, I had to make a move. My friends lived in San Francisco and told me about a culinary school there. And so I used that opportunity to get out of Oklahoma, and entered a very formative time in my life. I partied so crazy in San Francisco eventually I needed to move, so I moved to New York and  worked for fine dining restaurants. Then I caught the cooking bug. It wasn’t so much the food as it was the chaotic environment that I was in all the time— having so many pots on the stove at once, so to speak.

I couldn’t afford to live in New York so I moved back to San Francisco. There I found myself cooking at all these really fancy restaurants--  it was pristine, precise, and delicate but on our days off, we would go eat insanely spicy Szechuan food. I didn’t want a fine dining restaurant; I wanted a place that felt a little more democratized. I grew up eating fast food in Oklahoma and eating at Chinese restaurants. The first Mission Chinese restaurant we did was a pop-up take-out restaurant. You don’t even notice it if you walk by, and I love how it blended in. So I ultimately got into Chinese food by making Szechuan food. The real challenge of cooking Szechuan food is finding that balance between the spice and saltiness of the food. I love that challenge.

All that optometry practice explains the detail you regard your food with.  

Totally.

In the wake of Anthony Bourdain’s passing this last year, many chefs were moved to share what he meant to them. What has his legacy meant to you?

My first job in New York, I had no idea how to work in kitchens — I was just out of culinary school —  and I got caught reading a book while I was working...

The nerve!

My chef was like, “What are you doing?” I said, “I’m sorry, I’ll put it away.” Then I showed it to him and he said, “Oh, that’s a really good book.” I was terrified of my chef at the time, but we actually connected over that book, Kitchen Confidential, which I read cover to cover. I was really a fan of Anthony Bourdain’s writing even before I even started watching him on TV. The first time I met [Anthony Bourdain], someone had reached out to us in San Francisco, and there was a show at the time called The Layover. The premise was, he was in a city for 24 hours when he had a layover, and would reach out to chefs in the city and to show him around.  

[Anthony Bourdain] asked me to be on the show, so I met him, and took him to all the places I like to go. I was terrified but he made me so comfortable around the cameras. The thing I remember about him the most, was that night, we went to six or seven locations to film. News got out about where he was and the next stop we’d go to, we would show up and more and more people would be there, just watching. At every location, he would stop and hold the production crew up and say hi to every single person and shake their hand. The producers asked me to try to get him to move on to the next location because he would engage with everyone. There was such a personable feeling and warmth about him. He was larger than life. I would always get nervous to hang out with him even as a friend, but whenever we were together everything just stopped, you had his attention. He helped publish my first cookbook. Anthony Bourdain made a point to be present during the moments you had with him. I remember one of the last things we did when we filmed our show Mind of a Chef, there was a party. No one expected him to stay more than 10 minutes, but he stayed the entire time. He surprised us so many times... One time he brought Iggy Pop to Mission Chinese. That was the first time I’ve ever seen him nervous. A lot of times with celebrities, you feel like you don’t want to take their time, but that was never the case with him. I remember his warmth, how genuinely connected he was whenever we would speak.

Well thank you so much for your warmth and time today.

Playing with Time: A Conversation with Flo Ngala 

By Saidah Belo-Osagie

In The Society of the Spectacle, French Marxist philosopher Guy Debord critiqued consumer culture and mass media by theorizing that what makes our lives authentic has been replaced with mere images and what they represent. Amid this “Influencer Era,” are we just putting on a show and feeding into the Spectacle Debord warned us against? Or are we portraying the reality of our lives in a way that is both meaningful and genuine? While there is a case to be made that social media has blurred these lines, there are some gems that have used this said Spectacle for good– one of them being Flo Ngala.

Flo has made a name for herself within the New York arts and culture scene with her prolific photography portfolio. Whether she is capturing the toothy smiles of toddlers strutting through the African American Day Parade or shooting Cardi B adjust her dress at the Met Gala, the subject’s integrity and humanity always shine through Flo’s photos. I was lucky enough to catch Flo in a rare moment of stillness ahead of her first ever solo show (which is displaying various pieces discussed in this article until October 26) to discuss the impact self-advertising, constructive editing, and playing with time has had on her career.

Saidah Belo-Osagie: So, you got your start with photography at Horace Mann. Do you think it being a predominately white school affected the pursuit of your artistry? Do you think it motivated you to pursue an outlet of identity?

Flo Ngala: When I started at Horace Mann, I was still figuring out who I was and, subconsciously, I’m sure that one of the reasons I latched on to photo so tight was that the darkroom was safe space for me. Photography also gave me identity outside of wealth, social status or race, which is so prevalent in private school spaces. I was just considered artsy or cool to my peers before anything else. HM’s resources allowed me to unearth something in me that I am forever grateful for.

SBO: What did you end up majoring in when you headed off to college?

FN: I wanted to be an art/creative director, so I majored in advertising and minored in design. I thought photography would be there on the side, so I didn’t think I needed to major in it. Outside the classroom, most of my inspiration came from the internet and everyday life not textbooks. I used to love Tumblr especially because it had this endless scroll feature that really sucked me in.

SBO: Very true. There was a time people were constantly on Tumblr, but not as much anymore. Are you still using it?

FN: Instagram has taken over for me. I try to check myself but it’s difficult when Instagram also becomes both a line of work and a distraction. Tumblr had more for me honestly, I can see myself getting back on it for sure.

SBO: And Tumblr was interesting because you didn’t have to be famous to blow up and get all the notes the way you typically do with IG.

FN: Yep, the process of even just finding a page or Tumblr you liked wasn’t as easy as Instagram, they have all these algorithms that keep you in the app now and I find myself on someone’s page whose content I wouldn’t necessarily be viewing otherwise.

SBO: Is there anyone currently on Instagram who inspires you or posts particularly interesting content?

FN: There are so many people making good original content. I love seeing people’s personalities through what they choose to share and that’s something people appreciate about the way I use my Instagram as well. It’s crazy how branding or self-advertising ties in to how we live our everyday lives now. Like Instagram has turned everyone into an art director and a copywriter with our captions, or you’re just there to consume or steal and copy lol.

SBO: It always goes back to advertising!Photo by Flo Ngala

FN: It does. A caption can make someone love an average image or hate a beautiful one. I think when you see good shit you like, you start to pay attention to it more and understand how to curate those kinds of vibes for yourself and the way you brand yourself.

SBO: Okay, let’s shift gears and talk about your heritage. I’ve been noticing photographers celebrating their West African heritage by producing work of the diaspora.  As someone with West African roots, what do you think about this shift and do you feel as though your work has also inherited this influence?

FN: I’ve loved feeling more connected to my roots through these artists doing their things and I am thankful for them. Subconsciously, my mind and love for photo is really drawn to a nostalgic Africa, a vibrant Africa, and it is both inspiring and empowering to see so much good work out here that reflects both of those sides of the continent. As far as my work inheriting that influence, I want to continue pushing my creativity to reflect my definition of being an African-American artist and not just whatever people expect when they see Black female photographer. People love to put you in a box, so it is most important to take control of your influence.

SBO: And how was shooting in Senegal for you?

FN: That trip amazed and shocked me. I was so excited to be surrounded by so many people who looked like me. I felt like I was at home.

SBO: I read an article about Gordon Parks and how he’s one of your photography inspirations. Is there anything specific from his style that you’ve tried to emulate in your work?

FN: Seeing a Gordon Parks photo was the first time I cried at an image. I’d say as far as emulation, when I began taking pictures in high school, I wanted to also capture parts of my neighborhood using street photography, because the kind of intimacy and realness that I felt in work like that of Mr. Parks and others motivated me as a budding photographer.  

SBO: Even looking through your portfolio and the various photos you’ve taken—self-portraits, pictures of celebrities or figure skaters—there’s a way you capture these photos in a very intimate way. What mindset do you or the subject have to execute these types of photos?

FN: I think it’s about my mind’s filter with the way I see the world and the way I make edits of my images. For example, when I make selects, I’ll take 100 photos but the ones I pick will be different than someone else’s. That’s why pictures of Cardi B, figure skaters, or my self-portraits may all have that common denominator of intimacy or realness, because in my mind that is what I value in the world and in this art form. I believe it should be visceral, I really try to peer in and be that fly on the wall. One of my favorite examples of that is the African-American Day Parade shoot.

SBO: Yeah, that shoot gave me chills.

FN:  And photography should take you there, because as a photographer, you’re playing with all we have— time. And I’m freezing it and publicizing it. Life keeps going but with this medium, we can stop moments. It’s like a superpower and maybe that’s why when it’s done right, it hits people so different. With that responsibility the person behind the camera has to really have a good head on their shoulders or it can easily become exploitative.

SBO: I agree. Authorship is definitely important– the graphic pictures we see in textbooks that depict history are so important but at the same time the people who are taking photos of suffering people are doing so from a point of privilege. But what I love about your work is that you take places that people may traditionally look down upon or not even consider and debunk the preconceived notions. I think a good example of this is the New York Times Harlem figure skating piece. This also applies to your celebrity shoots because these photos humanize public figures who don’t get to show the world that side…

FN: Yeah, celebrities are still people. For me, the humanity of my photos is really important. First and foremost, I want to make sure the subject feels respected and not violated, with that someone will open up and become at ease with you capturing their space.

SBO: Would you want to be famous one day? 

FN: I go back and forth with myself about this. These days I see the pull of having clout or being relevant more than I do having fame which to me comes with such an invasion of your life, but I also think being famous would be fun [laughs]. For starters I want to get verified on Instagram, I don’t even know why but think that’s a start.

Also, any situation I can be in to put money in my mom’s bank account or to my family here and back home is something I’d want to take advantage of. And if being able to leverage my brand as a photographer and as a creative can help that, I’m all for it.

SBO: Have there been any projects that you’ve turned down for moral or personal reasons?

FN: No not at this point in life. I’ve found that I’m more decisive with how I want to spend my time recently and what I associate myself with. NY Times, Reebok, Nike, etc. all those opportunities helped me put my foot down. I can say no to things I may have said yes to a year or two ago and it took me a while to believe it was okay to do that. People come a bit more correct now as well, I think.

SBO: You mean the way they reach out to you or rather who is reaching out to you?

FN: Both! It all feels very transitional. Lots of learning and lots of not taking things personally, but also being self-aware and reflecting.

SBO: What would a typical day in the life look for you when you have an assignment?

FN: When I’m shooting? I show up, do my thing, come home, procrastinate a bit, make selects and edit. But also, there are days when I was shooting more Cardi and Gucci where a typical day would be shooting and then like whipping out my laptop and editing the photo ASAP. I used to always carry [my laptop] with me.

Sometimes it’s a lot of alone time, or it’s airdropping photos to 10 people in a room. I like the idea that I can do both and it helps to know how to produce images super quick, especially with the instant nature of images nowadays.

SBO: What do you use to edit your photos?

FN: Mostly Photoshop, occasionally Lightroom, I love VSCO software for editing on both my computer and phone as well.

SBO: How long have you been using Photoshop for?

FN: Like since 11th grade, so about 7-8 years.

SBO:  Did you teach yourself? Because I’ve tried to teach myself for a bit and whew…

FN: In school we did B&W film photography, barely digital. But I had a substitute photo teacher a few times named Mr. Mason. I remember getting my first basic skills from him. Once I pursued my own projects, I would play with Photoshop and now I feel quite confident in it. I also like it more than Lightroom because I can make something exactly how I want it to look and target parts of a photo. I remember I was working with a shot of Cardi at the VMAs and there were people in the back but knowing photoshop and how to edit people out made that image stronger.

On the other hand, with the New York Times skating piece, you can’t Photoshop anything because it’s news and has to be the whole truth. I love seeing the before and after of any shot though, editing can be so powerful when done right.

Before: 

After: 

SBO: What are your favorite spots to check out in NYC?

FN: I’m still figuring that out! The whole city is a landscape to create something if you have the vision for it so it’s about the right energy, lighting and vibe in a space.

SBO: Is there a photography community in NYC and if so, are you a part of it?

FN: So many and on so many levels depending on what your interests are, I honestly even think Instagram is a photographic community itself. I would love to get more involved with places such as  ICP and Aperture Fund. There is an amazing community for photographers here and a lot of things happening, so I need to tap into it more.

SBO: Would you stay in NYC or move to LA?

FN: I love NYC, I would do a few months in LA maybe for a project or to build my network out there since the photo and film industry is really big there too. I want to see the world and not get too comfortable in NY. But until further notice, Harlem is home.

SBO: Amazing. Okay, so last question: who are you?

FN: Just a person trying to do things. Dassit.

Source: Flo Ngala 

Photo Jacob Bixenman

Stylist Timothy Chernyaev

HMUA Homa Safar

Assistant Buck Andrews

Caroline D’Arcy Gorman: Talk to me about working with Jacob for this shoot. How did working with a close friend shape the creative process?

Tommy Dorfman: Working with Jacob was really organic and easy. The way he works is really full of life and energy and fun, but he is also good at keeping it contained and reeling me in. A really important part of any artistic collaboration is trust, and I have implicit trust in Jacob’s vision and his taste. We have a mutual respect for one another that is showcased in the photos. I don’t often get the opportunity to communicate that directly with the photographer, but for this shoot, Jacob and I were able to bounce ideas off each other, and send imagery and research. We were really able to talk about what’s exciting for me right now and what’s exciting for him and where we can meet in the middle.

CDG: You have an amazing fashion sense—  From what I’ve seen, the blue green hair that you’re rocking is cool as fuck. As a queer person, it took me a long time to come into my identity and to find a look that I felt really comfortable in. There was a really awkward phase when I was an early teenager trying to figure it all out. What was that process like for you, figuring out what clothes you feel comfortable in, and how has your style evolved over time?

TD: As a really young kid, from when I was a toddler through middle school, I wore exclusively “girl’s clothes”. A similar thing happened for me during those puberty years, where things get really weird and suddenly cliquey. I repressed a lot of that part of myself, and tried not to stand out so much. Also, fears of bullying, whether or not I was aware of it at the time, added up and it just felt safer to assimilate. Later in high school, after I came out to more people, I began to experiment more with my expression through clothing. Now when it comes to choosing what to wear, some days I am drained and I don’t have the brain capacity to put an outfit together, so I go to what’s comfortable and easy and what I feel safe in. Beyond getting attention for being myself, what I wear can also bring more attention to me, so there is often a battle of how confident I am feeling in myself that day and how noticeable I want to be. 

TD: I feel my most masculine in skirts at times, and my most feminine in sweatpants and a t-shirt; I don’t think the clothes always represent how I am feeling on the inside. In these photos, one of the looks we put together wasn’t composed of clothes that were pulled— it was a dress that I had brought, with a t-shirt and Jacob’s Doc Martens. To me, that is one of the most masculine looks that we did. Often clothes bring me into a new character, a different part of self. It was fun doing this shoot because I felt like we created these little characters that all co-existed in the same world.  

CDG: Totally. That’s why I love going to events sometimes. Dressing up, I feel like someone completely different, which feels really refreshing. You have been very open about your sobriety online which is awesome, I am also sober, and it’s cool to see that you are able to be open about it without pushing an agenda. By saying what works for you, you are providing hope and resources to people out there who need to know that sobriety is an option. 

TD: Yeah it’s interesting, that post opened up a channel of conversation with someone I to college with and wasn’t particularly close with at the time. We were able to connect in a way that we never would have been able to before. [Sobriety] is such an equalizer. It is a day at a time, and I may not be sober for the rest of my life so it’s risky to talk about it. But, if I relapse, I don’t think that’s something I should be criticized for. This is a disease we are struggling with. Queer safe spaces tend to be in places where alcohol and drugs are prevelant, and I didn’t think there was a life for me without those things. Now I know that I can participate in that stuff, and still go to those safe spaces without having to drink or use drugs. Especially since a lot of my followers are young and some of them are queer, it’s important for them to know that they don’t have to be defined by drugs or alcohol. 

CDG: You have so many people following you, who you are influencing. What was it like when you first started to gain a platform and realize that you have a major voice?

TD: I think I have a niche voice, in that I don’t have 100 million followers, I have a really cool group of people who participate in my life, which is nice. It was still strange; I think the whole thing is kind of weird. [Fame] is not something you can fully prepare for and it is not something that I expected to happen. So when it did, I had to figure out how to manage it. Some days it gives me a lot of anxiety and other days it gives me hope. Social media can have a real impact, but the reality is, social media is not real. It’s such a double edged sword: On one hand I get to help people, and participate in important conversations, and on the other hand, I deal with bullying and the comedown of the dopamine high of “likes” and not getting enough “likes”. Just like any teenager feels, I feel when I post a photo. But I don’t want my life to be dominated by engagement on Instagram so I’ll go through periods of time where I just delete it off my phone because I feel like it’s detrimental to my mental health. I try to use it for good at the end of the day, and not let it rule my life. It is way cooler to have an interaction with someone on the street. 

CDG: I want to talk about the play, “Daddy,” that you did, which I so wish that I saw. 

TD: Talk about working with friends! I had a lot of friends on that. Doing that play was a way for me to ground myself and secure myself in one city for longer than a week, and dive into what I love doing the most, which is acting. So much of this industry asks actors to do other things, like going to fashion shows and parties, which I enjoy sometimes, but I don’t like being in large crowds all the time. To have the opportunity to just act for four months was a dream. It was humbling and soul filling. Having an interaction with an audience that changes every single day for eight shows a week is remarkable. And having the trust in a company of actors who I really admire and learn from, was so exciting. In theatre everyone really carries each other, whether you have two scenes to do in the play, or 20. 

CDG: How did you maintain your energy and strike a balance between being able to show up and perform and give it your all every day but also take care of yourself?

TD: I let myself sleep. Usually I’m early to bed, early to rise person and this play turned me into a late to bed, late to rise person, which was a different experience than I’d had before but an altogether enjoyable one. I didn’t socialize very much, I didn’t go to bars, I went to the same restaurant every day—  It was really nice. I didn’t ask too much of myself. The challenge was to allow myself the freedom to not move if I didn’t want to move, and conserve. We all got the flu during the play, but we still had to commit and show up. I feel like I can do anything now, when it comes to acting. I can work as many hours as I need to under whatever conditions. We did it all during those four months. 

CDG: Do you ever get into a creative rut and if so what do you do to take yourself out of it and stimulate yourself?

TD: I find that there is a benefit to pushing through, and forcing creativity at times; however, when it comes to writing, for example, there are times when I just need to step away from it for a second. I’ll go and watch movies, see theatre and spend time with friends. I’ll spend time walking around without my phone and observing people. I am still navigating that space for myself, and figuring out what it looks like. The less time I am on my phone the more creative I am. When I don’t have Instagram on my phone, I am way more productive. 

CDG: Often I check Instagram because I’m bored and don’t know what else to do; if I don’t give myself that option, though, a whole new field for creativity opens up instead of getting stuck in this routine of checking social media.

TD: I find reading to be an extremely creative thing too. Taking the time to create a world for yourself, and figure out what it looks like to you, stimulates your imagination. Reading can inspire whatever it is you are working on. 

CDG: Is it true that you wanted to do stage acting right out of drama school?

TD: I did want to pursue theatre and I felt that in order to do so, I had to go to grad school. Instead of grad school I decided to pursue television in the hopes that creating a career in television and film would allow me more access to theatre. So at the end of the day, [my work] has always lead me back to theatre. In college, I received acting training and learned a lot from my teachers, but I also had life experience that I had to go through, like getting sober, and leaving school and coming back. I had to go through a lot of experiences before I could start working professionally and do what I am doing now. When I first got sober, I didn’t think that I could be an actor. I did not think that was going to be an option for me. 

CDG: Why is that?

TD: There are a lot of drugs and a lot of drinking in the industry. Now that I have six years sober, it doesn’t bother me in the way that it would have if I had six months, but it just seemed like a glamourous cocaine-friendly world, which is sort of what I spiraled out of (laughs).

CDG: Mhmm.

TD: I mean, not actually super glamourous, but I thought it was at the time. And [acting] seemed like a scary thing to do sober when you could actually feel all of your feelings. I was fragile, and I was vulnerable, and the idea of constant rejection, which is what an actor’s life is. Even if you are successful and working, very few of us get to do whatever it is that we want to do at the time. Most of us are striving for things, fighting for things, pushing ourselves to achieve more, do more, fulfill ourselves creatively, and with that comes a lot of disapproval from others. I didn’t know that sobriety actually enabled me to deal with rejection and not let it affect me. When I was first getting sober, I thought that there would be no way I would be able rejection, because it would force me to drink.

CDG: It is honestly so inspiring and encouraging to hear about your journey. It is really beautiful how something that you could have never dreamed came to fruition in sobriety. And you had to go through really hard times to get there—- We all do. 

TD: It really shocks me that I get to do what I get to do. I find it unbelievable. And it very much feels a thing that could go away at any moment. So I try to stay present with it and enjoy it as much as possible and not take it for granted. 

CDG: Do you have any words or advice for young queer kids who may be struggling with their identities? 

TD: That is when the Internet can be really great. You can find a community, you can find resources. We have been talking about Instagram, so to bring it back to that, you can click on a profile, to get to another profile, to get to another profile, and eventually you will find someone who you can relate to, and communicate with directly. That is a great opportunity to use Instagram for good. I know a lot of queer people on Instagram who have platforms, and whether they have 5,000 followers or 5 million, they will do Q+A’s and provide resources in their bio for those who are struggling. 

Beyond that… I have been thinking a lot about this with Pride. Being out and being in the industry, I know a lot of actors who aren’t out. At first I judged them and now, I do my best not to. It is okay if you don’t feel comfortable expressing your full self. It doesn’t mean that you should be criticized for it, you shouldn’t feel pressure if you aren’t able to participate in Pride. I feel like Pride becomes a competition for people; not just in June, also in day to day life. There is a lot of shame in not being out, or not being true to yourself, being the best you and “fuck the haters”— At the end of the day, it’s okay to allow yourself time and patience to figure it out. For some people, it’s more comfortable to be in the closet and that’s fine.

 This year, we kicked off our DRØME Pride celebration with alice + olivia, a brand known for its unabashed and novel take on color schemes, patterns, and fabrics. Stacey Bendet, the powerhouse and creative force behind the brand, is not shy or conventional when it comes to her approach to design. The alice + olivia Pride Party exhibited a similar audacity. The warehouse space was decked out in rainbow, complete with a bed positioned in the middle of the dance floor. Guests watched voguers led by ballroom Legend Dashaun Wesley light up the floor.

Tiny rainbow cakes, macaroons, and vodka “Pride” drinks made their way around the space as guests danced to tunes spun by Ruby Aldridge, took photos, and tie dyed their way into pride season. A hidden room, coated in light pink, featured rainbow bedazzled hanky panky’s for guests to keep. The Easter Egg of the night was DRØME’s third Volume of the print magazine, which could be spotted near the tie dye area and flanking six rainbow Svedka Vodka bottles at the bar.

alice + olivia Summer Kickoff Party in Celebration of WORLDPRIDE was held tonight, Tuesday, June 18, 2019 in New York City.

THE INTERNET COMES TO HOWARD ST. FOR DEPOP

Words and Photography by Cameron Michael Debe

It isn’t uncommon for the Internet to venture out to one of Soho’s most nondescript streets; usually for favorites like Rick Owens, Opening Ceremony, or Smile to Go. But on Friday night, New York’s fashion hunters came for the launch party of Depop LIVE, a new retail pop up where customers can touch and purchase the product irl. Depop LIVE was a two-day retail concept store heavily marketed to Gen-Z consumers with panel talks on sustainability, live performances and workshops that, “focus on exploring the cultural and creative reaches of fashion through technology, entrepreneurship and community.”

As the guests entered the party, they were immediately shrouded in deep red neon light. Industrial pipes acted as clothing racks for designers like Come Tees and No Sesso.  Past the piping (and arcade style claw crane) a substantial dancefloor allowed guests to gossip, be seen, and drink. Among the cocktails flowing well into the night were Depop’s spin on an Old-Fashioned, Cucumber Lemonades and fan favorite, the Icelandic Mule. The crowd was a mixture between cult designers like Heron Preston, Depop ambassadors, RuPaul alum Aja, and those girls that you’ve seen on IG.

Due to the lack of AC, the real party happened outside, where guests fled for relief. Amid clouds of smoke, Howard St. skaters talked about their upcoming installation projects next to first-time models looking to network, “I’m sorry, did you say you were an editor of a magazine!”  But most of all, people looked at their phones, presumably scrolling through Depop. Through it all, I snapped some photos on my digital camera. It glitches sometimes.

Depop LIVE was open to the public Saturday, June 8 + Sunday, June 9, 2019, 12:00 PM - 8:00 PM at 428 Broadway, New York.